Huh, didn’t see this before.

I think the answer to the initial question is that yes, Garten is the bad guy-tragically so, perhaps, but still the bad guy. Is it sad that the woman he loved didn’t love him back? Yes. Is it even sadder that she picked one of his brothers over him? Yes. Does that mean he was even remotely justified in doing what he did?

The fact of the matter is, lots of relationships don’t work out. Plenty of people experience feelings that are unrequited (meaning the person they gave feelings for doesn’t feel the same way). It‘s rough, and I’m sure it’s not easy for anyone to go through. However, I think the vast majority of people who go through it don’t react by committing GRAND TREASON.

Because Sween rejected him, Garten decided to sell his people out to creatures of apparently pure evil who kill and eat rabbits and are particularly fond of eating children. Because Helmer and the King’s Arm tried to stop him, he had Helmer’s bucks slaughtered and chained him to a tree where he could either stand and watch the horror or cut off his own arm so as to attempt a hopeless intervention. Because Sween chose one of his brothers, he had his thugs ambush the other brother and tie him up where he would watch the action and be powerless to intervene. And then he tried, if his words to Heather are any indication, to dress it up like he was doing the best thing for rabbitkind, when really he was just a frustrated and bitter rabbit.

I think The Archer’s Cup gave us a bit of insight into this sort of relationship. Both Garten and Grare were in love, and both were rejected. Unfortunately, both seem, in different ways, not to have respected or comprehended that the does they cared for had rights and desires of their own. In Grare’s case, he refused to accept Elisabeth’s choice and beca determined to possess her. In Garten’s case, his reaction to Sween’s choice was to make her-and every other rabbit-suffer for it.

Okay here's another thought....Garten caused mass pain and destruction, making other people feel the same emotions he did... we think he wanted people to understand his pain, wanted Sween to understand, wanted her to see him, to acknowledge him.... He was broken and had lost the one thing he loved most, so what did he do, he took away the one thing everyone loved most...King Jupiter! Just a thought....

I think that even though it wasn't his fault that Sween rejected him, he still choose to turn to Morbin. I know people who have broken up because of an argument or something, and while you may be extremely depressed, you can't let it control your life. While I have a lot of sympathy for Garten, that one event can't eliminate the fact that he's caused probably hundreds of deaths.

It's quite likely if Garten had repented, he would have be forgiven like Winslow and Kylen were.

I don't think Garten was necessarily a bad rabbit himself. Sween's rejections led him to turn to Morbin.

But I mean, what was Sween supposed to do? You can't make yourself love or unlove someone. She loved his brother and not him. Sure, maybe she could have let him down easier. But that's how it was.

So no, Garten wasn't naturally a bad rabbit, just driven by hurtful past experiences. He had a wrong motivation. Anyway, that's all I put to that.

*Sigh* Garten. I have a lot of pity for him. Sween could have done better. If you have read Percy Jackson, then you remember Luke came to Annabeth asking for help and such, she said no, he came even more bitter. I feel like that my have happened in a way. I feel all of the three though. Whittle, he just liked a doe. However, if he knew Garten liked her, they could settle it out somehow.( I have no idea how though.) Also, if you read Heroes of Olympus, you remember in (I think) book four that Cupid said that death is sometimes better than love. IDK, Garten just chose what Picket chose but didn’t correct it.

So... The whole situation with Garten, Whittle, and Sween is sad, and there was probably a lot they could have handled better, but heartbreak over lost love is hardly justification for Garten's actions. I expect he had dark ambitions inside him, and that Sween's rejection triggered those and set him on that path. However, it was still a path he had to choose. He had to choose to dwell on and follow his disappointment and resentment rather than love and loyalty. I like how [@LuvGreenEmber] has dealt with it in The Traitor's Love. Really, it's very much like what you might see happen to a real person. Even the worst tyrants and evildoers started life just like anyone else, but they followed their evil desires and ideas to the worst conclusions. The ideas we hold, and the thoughts that we focus on, determine what we do, and who we become. (That wasn't supposed to sound ominous or anything...)

I think that Garten is cool. If he would have gotten married then a lot of the books wouldn't have happened.

Haha, I never answered your questions though: No, Garten is not as bad as he seems, and yes, I believe Sween is as good as she seems. Of coure, now that I said that, all the bad things Garten did are coming back to me... but I will hold fast to my claim. 😄

I'm experiencing exceedingly conflicting feelings... I think what happened to Garten was very sad and I pity him, but it was still his choice to turn that sorrow into bitterness and anger. Someone with that much will power could have managed to get over it. (I'm not saying that it wouldn't be tremendously hard, because at the same time, someone with that much will power might also have very intense emotions, which only show themselves once in a while.)

I also think Sween might have rebuffed Garten; we're not sure exactly how it played out, but still, at the end of the day, it was her choice. I haven't thought about this a lot, so I don't have a lot of thoughts. Wow, that sentence was a great example of circular reasoning... But please, don't make me hate Sween! (Cause the pity I feel for Garten is extreme. And only grew when I read this post.)

Yes but obviously Garten was good at hiding things I mean he plotted out an entire betrayal and death of a highly protected rabbit without his brothers noticing.

In the past, (from my FEW experiences, that is) some are kinda oblivious to the fact that someone may like you or someone else... Sween (like some girls I know) dont know or realize that someone may like them until they realize that person starts to hang out with someone else. I dunno, that's just my thoughts

Man, that first paragraph hit home!! 😭 (I'm glad we don't have any of that drama in my family...)

I think that honestly Sweens character in ruined for me but I don’t think that she was bad. If you’ve ever had a crush on someone you know it’s hard to get over. I think that she and Whittle are a perfect match and while Garten may have wanted to keep fighting Whittle wanted to settle down. I think that falling in love does not happen often and that Sween was smart to take it when she could.

Now about Garten. I think that he was driven by bitterness and jealousy. I think that once he started working with Morbin he couldn’t back out. I think that what he did was almost like a drug, once he got sucked in he couldn’t get out until it ruined him completely. So over all I don’t think that Sween did anything wrong by following her heart, and Garten started to work with Morbin out of pain until he couldn’t escape.