Maybe this is a sign of my age-I am probably one of the older, if not the oldest, members here-but since when is a story improved by the death of a main character? I feel like I’ve enjoyed plenty where such characters all lived to the end. Personally, I think Jo’s stories and inclusion add depth to the story itself. His adventures show, rather than tell, that there are things going on in Natalia other than whatever Heather and Picket are up to.
Jo Shanks is a special case among the Green Ember characters. S.D. Smith included him in The Green Ember, then decided to bring him back for Ember Falls. Jo grew on him enough that he decided to give him a book of his own, and then another, and then another. He also had roles in the third and fourth books, which was kind of to be expected from a member of an elite combat unit. S.D. Smith may have started these books to write about Heather and Picket, but Jo sneaked his way into being another main character.
I think “Mary Sue” is too strong a term for Heather-that gives the impression, to me at least, of someone superhuman. Lest we forget, it’s her brother who can’t be on the same battlefield as a named Wolf character without going all “The bolt of Tash falls from above!” I’m a bit surprised there’s so much dislike for her. Granted, in Ember Rising and Ember’s End I do prefer Picket’s sections to hers, but I figure that’s because she’s in the more depressing/creepy situations. It’s like how I enjoy Frodo and Sam’s adventures in The Lord of the Rings less than the the rest of the Fellowships because they’re traveling into Mordor with Gollum, not because I dislike Frodo or Sam.
As far as personality flaws, Heather has them-I just don’t think they’re especially pronounced. In part, I think this is because we only get small slices of her life, most of which involve moments that call upon Heather to be the best that she can be. Queen, scribe, and seer she might have been, but her chosen vocation was that of a doctor. I know doctors aren’t perfect, but a truly dedicated healer, to my mind, has a great capacity to rise above themselves in service to others. That being said, some weaknesses of Heather’s can be observed throughout the series:
As was mentioned by @Saraina , Heather struggles with insecurity in the first book. The fact that she’s over it by the end doesn’t diminish the reality.
Heather has a temperamental streak throughout the first few books, and we might have seen it in book four had she not spent it almost exclusively in company with Smalls. It’s true her outbursts were typically only in response to others’ bad behavior, but that’s not always a good reaction. Jo certainly didn’t need her aggravating his injured arm.
Heather had a strong will, which could be both benefit and detriment to her. At one point in Ember Falls she was pushing herself so hard that Emma had to pull rank and order her to go out on a break.
Heather’s flaws are also downplayed by the fact that she is usually quick to realize she’s been behaving badly, and that-so far as we read-appears to be the end of it. Her eavesdropping habits, her unfounded dislike of Heyna, her hostility towards Kylen-all are recognized and repented of within a short time in the books. The reality is that weeks or months are taking place that we’re not seeing much of. Picket, by contrast, is more stubborn in his faults, until he is humbled by the results of his manipulation of Smalls and the resulting admonitions of Wilfred.
He’s also a pretty strong case in point that Heather did not have “perfect everything”, along with their murderous uncle. I also wouldn’t say Whittle and Sween were perfect parents, given that they concealed pretty everything about their former lives from their children. They had their reasons, of course, and it built up the whole revelation about Garten’s betrayal, but I still get the impression that they were too secretive.
I get that flaws help to add depth and realism to characters. If y’all will forgive me saying so, though, a lot of media seems to lean towards characters who are so flawed that you have to strain to find any redeeming qualities about them.
@Saraina yep. I think I'm coming across the wrong way now, lol. I just want make sure everybody's fine and nobody hurts each other's feelings. If I hurt anybody's feelings, I'm sorry, I didn't mean anything personally, I promise.
To all who dislike Heather, here are some good traits about her: she is loyal, sympathetic, compassionate, very caring and concerned for Picket (as shown in GE), stubborn, strong and has a fiery, determined spirit hidden beneath her usual aura of gentleness. She is brave and is passionate about the truth and the things she stands up for and believes in. :)
I can't deny Heather is a bit flat. *shrugs* But I still like her: to me, she isn't unbearably so. :) @Rhys and @The Fowlers I'm sorry I have to go now! Have a great day and bear the flame!
@Rhys I think I understand what you mean. I never really liked Heather, although I never really noticed her being stuck up (maybe a little bit...?) but I've always thought of her as an uninteresting character (Although I do admire Mr. Smith for trying to make a very feminine, girl hero character that girl readers can look up to). I also agree that Jo is overused, and that Picket is too heroic; I really wish that Cole or someone else had killed the wolf king at the end of the last book. However, I don't agree that Heather, Smalls, Jo, or Picket should have died. It would make an interesting twist if Heyna died, but that's just my opinion. :)
@Ruth A. J. G. I might have used Janner? I really thought I was Thorn, but it's been a while. But yeah it was that!!! Wasn't there a picnic with Leeli, Sara, and Thorn?
@Rhys Oh yes, that was it! 😄 Lol, that was really fun. And I think you were Thorn, now that I think of it. Nice to see you again! :)
You know, if there are any others here from the Golden Coast, we should make a site, or a forum, so we can still talk about WS stuff! Or has someone already something like that...?
Wow. This is crazy, lol. Of course Jo, Heather, Smalls, and Picket are going to survive, they're main characters. Main characters almost always survive unless it's the very end.
okay. So your telling me you don't like Picket. Or Jo. Or Heather. You might as well say you don't like Gort or or or or like umm.... I'M TOO FLUSTERED TO THINK!!!!!! Okay, Picket is amazing. so what he's basic? What if I was basic? What if I were just like every other girl my age?!?!?! Then you wouldn't like me?!?! You wouldn't want to be my friend!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! And Jo, Jo grew up in a seemingly emotionally abusive household which is not all bright and happy!!!!!! He was strong and fought through. And he was then brought to a place where he was always second. And being second is the worst. Just in general. He was bullied by the people he looked up to most and was made fun of by the fowlers when he joined. Yes, I know it was all "Fun and games" but he probably was still hurt. And he was second best next to Picket in Helmers eyes. He was second best next to Cole in Heyna's eyes. He was second best to Heyna in Emma's eyes. HE WAS ALWAYS SECOND BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So leave Jo alone. He couldn't have died, he had never really lived life like lots of rabbits had. Not even for a day.
Next, Heather. She is NOT stuck up. She is very modest. I bet you can't name one time she was stuck up. And they all have like at some point!!! She had everything taken from her except her brother and then was thrown into this leadership position overnight. So yah, leave Heather alone also.
😑
Okay, second thought. If someone were to die, in my opinion, it would be these rabbits:
Heyna: It would scar Cole and change him for the worse, most likely. She was one of the most important things to him and her dying would create some nice drama and sadness.
Jacket: Having the main characters little brother die would be heart breaking because you would get that depression from Heather and the guilt from Picket. If would make for nice and juicy reading.
Emma: This would shock all of Natalia. She was the leader for quite a while and having her die would not just effect her best friends and her family but also everyone else. It would cause craziness and honestly even though that would have been super sad I had really thought she would die.
Final thought,
D O N O T S A Y J O S H O U L D H A V E D I E D
I will actually jump off a cliff. No joke. Jo can't die. He's too perfect and you saying you wished he would have died is making me so sad.
P.S. I'm sorry if I like sound super rude at all during this message but I have like a lot of caffeine and I am legit trying my hardest right now to be nice.
WHat!!!!!!!!!!! We get Heather but the others!!!!!!!!!!! We were so crushed when Smalls 'died'.....and Picket is basic but awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! And Jo is well he's JO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Cole and Heyna wouldn't be the same without JO and neither would Emma or Picket.....and without Picket, Jo, and Smalls there would have been no Fowlers....
But to each his own.....but it was enough for us to lose Helmer.....
@Rhys (Mr. Blackstar) No! No! Helmer's sacrifice made the book and Helmer never could have lived with himself.....he had already lost so much and he was older and Picket was young....sorry we have to go! Ttyl!
Maybe this is a sign of my age-I am probably one of the older, if not the oldest, members here-but since when is a story improved by the death of a main character? I feel like I’ve enjoyed plenty where such characters all lived to the end. Personally, I think Jo’s stories and inclusion add depth to the story itself. His adventures show, rather than tell, that there are things going on in Natalia other than whatever Heather and Picket are up to.
Jo Shanks is a special case among the Green Ember characters. S.D. Smith included him in The Green Ember, then decided to bring him back for Ember Falls. Jo grew on him enough that he decided to give him a book of his own, and then another, and then another. He also had roles in the third and fourth books, which was kind of to be expected from a member of an elite combat unit. S.D. Smith may have started these books to write about Heather and Picket, but Jo sneaked his way into being another main character.
I think “Mary Sue” is too strong a term for Heather-that gives the impression, to me at least, of someone superhuman. Lest we forget, it’s her brother who can’t be on the same battlefield as a named Wolf character without going all “The bolt of Tash falls from above!” I’m a bit surprised there’s so much dislike for her. Granted, in Ember Rising and Ember’s End I do prefer Picket’s sections to hers, but I figure that’s because she’s in the more depressing/creepy situations. It’s like how I enjoy Frodo and Sam’s adventures in The Lord of the Rings less than the the rest of the Fellowships because they’re traveling into Mordor with Gollum, not because I dislike Frodo or Sam.
As far as personality flaws, Heather has them-I just don’t think they’re especially pronounced. In part, I think this is because we only get small slices of her life, most of which involve moments that call upon Heather to be the best that she can be. Queen, scribe, and seer she might have been, but her chosen vocation was that of a doctor. I know doctors aren’t perfect, but a truly dedicated healer, to my mind, has a great capacity to rise above themselves in service to others. That being said, some weaknesses of Heather’s can be observed throughout the series:
As was mentioned by @Saraina , Heather struggles with insecurity in the first book. The fact that she’s over it by the end doesn’t diminish the reality.
Heather has a temperamental streak throughout the first few books, and we might have seen it in book four had she not spent it almost exclusively in company with Smalls. It’s true her outbursts were typically only in response to others’ bad behavior, but that’s not always a good reaction. Jo certainly didn’t need her aggravating his injured arm.
Heather had a strong will, which could be both benefit and detriment to her. At one point in Ember Falls she was pushing herself so hard that Emma had to pull rank and order her to go out on a break.
Heather’s flaws are also downplayed by the fact that she is usually quick to realize she’s been behaving badly, and that-so far as we read-appears to be the end of it. Her eavesdropping habits, her unfounded dislike of Heyna, her hostility towards Kylen-all are recognized and repented of within a short time in the books. The reality is that weeks or months are taking place that we’re not seeing much of. Picket, by contrast, is more stubborn in his faults, until he is humbled by the results of his manipulation of Smalls and the resulting admonitions of Wilfred.
He’s also a pretty strong case in point that Heather did not have “perfect everything”, along with their murderous uncle. I also wouldn’t say Whittle and Sween were perfect parents, given that they concealed pretty everything about their former lives from their children. They had their reasons, of course, and it built up the whole revelation about Garten’s betrayal, but I still get the impression that they were too secretive.
I get that flaws help to add depth and realism to characters. If y’all will forgive me saying so, though, a lot of media seems to lean towards characters who are so flawed that you have to strain to find any redeeming qualities about them.
Hey, everyone, remember that it's okay for people to disagree with you. It's not a big deal.
To all who dislike Heather, here are some good traits about her: she is loyal, sympathetic, compassionate, very caring and concerned for Picket (as shown in GE), stubborn, strong and has a fiery, determined spirit hidden beneath her usual aura of gentleness. She is brave and is passionate about the truth and the things she stands up for and believes in. :)
@Rhys I think I understand what you mean. I never really liked Heather, although I never really noticed her being stuck up (maybe a little bit...?) but I've always thought of her as an uninteresting character (Although I do admire Mr. Smith for trying to make a very feminine, girl hero character that girl readers can look up to). I also agree that Jo is overused, and that Picket is too heroic; I really wish that Cole or someone else had killed the wolf king at the end of the last book. However, I don't agree that Heather, Smalls, Jo, or Picket should have died. It would make an interesting twist if Heyna died, but that's just my opinion. :)
I really liked heather and I can't see why you would not like her. I have never been a big fan of picket.
Wow. This is crazy, lol. Of course Jo, Heather, Smalls, and Picket are going to survive, they're main characters. Main characters almost always survive unless it's the very end.
Wait, wait , WAIT! You don’t like anybody living!?! Lol... I think Iv’e been of of NS for WAY too long...
@Rhys (Mr. Blackstar)
Rhys.
Rhys.
Rhys.
Rhys.
okay. So your telling me you don't like Picket. Or Jo. Or Heather. You might as well say you don't like Gort or or or or like umm.... I'M TOO FLUSTERED TO THINK!!!!!! Okay, Picket is amazing. so what he's basic? What if I was basic? What if I were just like every other girl my age?!?!?! Then you wouldn't like me?!?! You wouldn't want to be my friend!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! And Jo, Jo grew up in a seemingly emotionally abusive household which is not all bright and happy!!!!!! He was strong and fought through. And he was then brought to a place where he was always second. And being second is the worst. Just in general. He was bullied by the people he looked up to most and was made fun of by the fowlers when he joined. Yes, I know it was all "Fun and games" but he probably was still hurt. And he was second best next to Picket in Helmers eyes. He was second best next to Cole in Heyna's eyes. He was second best to Heyna in Emma's eyes. HE WAS ALWAYS SECOND BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So leave Jo alone. He couldn't have died, he had never really lived life like lots of rabbits had. Not even for a day.
Next, Heather. She is NOT stuck up. She is very modest. I bet you can't name one time she was stuck up. And they all have like at some point!!! She had everything taken from her except her brother and then was thrown into this leadership position overnight. So yah, leave Heather alone also.
😑
Okay, second thought. If someone were to die, in my opinion, it would be these rabbits:
Heyna: It would scar Cole and change him for the worse, most likely. She was one of the most important things to him and her dying would create some nice drama and sadness.
Jacket: Having the main characters little brother die would be heart breaking because you would get that depression from Heather and the guilt from Picket. If would make for nice and juicy reading.
Emma: This would shock all of Natalia. She was the leader for quite a while and having her die would not just effect her best friends and her family but also everyone else. It would cause craziness and honestly even though that would have been super sad I had really thought she would die.
Final thought,
D O N O T S A Y J O S H O U L D H A V E D I E D
I will actually jump off a cliff. No joke. Jo can't die. He's too perfect and you saying you wished he would have died is making me so sad.
P.S. I'm sorry if I like sound super rude at all during this message but I have like a lot of caffeine and I am legit trying my hardest right now to be nice.
WHAT???????!!!!!!!!
how could anyone NOT like Jo, Picket, Smalls, or Heather!!!??
I was thinking, and I do like Jo and Picket. I just think that one dying in the final battle would have made it more interesting.
WHat!!!!!!!!!!! We get Heather but the others!!!!!!!!!!! We were so crushed when Smalls 'died'.....and Picket is basic but awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! And Jo is well he's JO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Cole and Heyna wouldn't be the same without JO and neither would Emma or Picket.....and without Picket, Jo, and Smalls there would have been no Fowlers....
But to each his own.....but it was enough for us to lose Helmer.....
#crushedlikeagrape
Huh??? You don't like JO???? HOW??? And PICKET?????? I understand about Heather, and even Smalls, but JO AND PICKET???????????????????